Is that how > you> would describe it? news:47897d0b$0$5129$4c36@roadrunner.com > Harry writes: (seen on google)>> >>> 1. so drugged out as to have been clearly incapable of making sense >> >>> of>>> anything and 2. never actually spoke (just some unintelligible >> mumbling),<<<>, >> No, she clearly says "sorry" to Zeigler when he says "you gave us a scare >> kiddo" and then Bill asks her, "How are you feeling now Mandy?" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. (Video in comments) : r/Ghostbc Jocelyn Pook and Opening Title Music from Eyes Wide Shut (1999) | walkerhomeschoolblog. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. I enjoy the > mystery entirely and will return to it over and over and could watch the > film again and again.>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequently> send a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? Eyes Wide Shut: What The Mask On The Pillow Means, Every Stanley Kubrick Movie Ranked, Worst To Best, The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story, Why Pirates of the Caribbean Producer Wants Johnny Depp Back, Chris Pratt Joins Luigi Actor To Troll Super Mario Bros. Movie Voice Critics. >> If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade.>>, >>>>>>>>>>>That would not be valuable or insightful speculation, but a total> denial of most of what happens in the film (another variation of 'it's> all just a dream', everything being attributable to the delusions of> Bill's mind, a denial of the world of social power, similar to saying> that everything that happens to Jack Torrance in The Shining is all> 'in his mind'). '<<<<<<<<<<< I think it is clear he was > referring to the Somerton party. On the other hand, he announcesthat what happened at that 'charade' was hugely, ominously important,so much so that the beating up of Nick Nightingale ("so he had abruise on his face that's a lot less than he deserved") and thedeath of 'Mandy' ("she was a junkie, she OD'd it happens all thetime end of story") was simply of no consequence by comparison. <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. What a joke to call them "philosophers." He didn't recognise her voice. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." In a > case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. Orgy? One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shutmask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. WebIn Kubrick's Eyes Wide Shut, the protagonist Bill arrives at a secret party/orgy: Shortly after arriving, he is warned by a masked woman to leave ASAP. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. I recognized the voice of the > mysterious woman first time I saw the film.>>, >> it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. How manypayments of $19.99 was that, again?-- "History is a lie agreed upon." Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. This is still a mystery. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Take another listen. The rhizomatic uncertainties and> > uncanny inconsistencies multiply >> "Rhizomatic uncertainties"?>> I actually had to look that up. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to > all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. I am normally the last guy in the, > world to criticize somebody for using big words. That is what she was" implying that her deathis of no consequence because of the low-status manner in which Zieglerchooses to define her (an identity created and perpetuated by theZieglers of the world in the first place), earlier confirmed by hisdesire to get the drugged-out Mandy out of his bathroom and house("Can we put some clothes on her and get her out of here?" It's just idiotic. Yes, the uncertainty about the identities of the women is Structuralto the film's splintered narrative. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. The lower part is made of paper-mache, while the upper one "anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? Desire is always Other. A part-time hobby soon blossomed into a career when he discovered he really loved writing about movies, TV and video games; he even (arguably) had a little bit of talent for it. andpleading with her to take off her mask? He stares down at her but that'sit, and Kubrick tryied in vain to tlel his stories visually so itshould be considerd from a visual perspective. But then again when Superman puts on a pair of plain eyeglassesLois Lane, or anyone else fails to recognize him as Clark Kent! At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very slight, single frame, mini-wink and subsequent eye movement was intended? reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). 2. Being "all a Charade," doesn't mean it was all a dream. We need some upstart director and SK devotee who can channel SK, to Make EWS part 2. <<<<<<< > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. >>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton peopleonly learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious ofhis manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coatpocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<. > Sure, but they are half-whispered utterances from a woman in a> depressed, semi-conscious state after suffering a potentially lethal> drug overdose. Superman movies must keep him in the pre 80s, or he needsto do some serious upgrading. The masked woman was played by a different actor but is the samecharacter. :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. <<<<<<<<, > In the spur of the moment people might first recognize voices, > subliminally. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? Orgy? When Bill thinks hes just about to score his own sexual liaison, his charade is exposed. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. The woman who had tried to warn Bill intervenes and insists on redeeming him, at an undisclosed personal cost. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? Like much of the director's work like The Shining, movie fans love to debate the symbolism and meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. I think the voice would have rung a bell and > the Newspaper story rang a bell, with the name Amanda, and of course > seeing the corpse of someone who may have sacrificed her life for him--so > he was in shock. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? Next: The Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King's Story. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. Was she the women at the party?" On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. Please either stop orshape up. > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. He has written words for Den of Geek, Collider, The Irish Times and Screen Rant over the years, and can discuss anything from the MCU - where Hawkeye is clearly the best character - to the most obscure cult b-movie gem, and his hot takes often require heat resistant gloves to handle. (Just like we dream alone, even if we're in bed with someone else.). Does anyone else sense the inspiration of the mask designs from the film Eyes Wide Shut? People were dancing, there was music wearing costumes, and although > it was strange, calling it a "party," would not be unusual in the > slightest. > But it isn't clear at all, and nobody in the film refers to the events> at Somerton as a 'party.'<<<<<<<. However, the lack of one may have saved the life of gangster Vincent (Mad Dog) Coll (various movies). "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message news:47881976$0$11015$4c36@roadrunner.com "Kelpzoidzl" wrote in message. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. No comments. Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. In contrast, why does the masked woman seeminglyalready know much more than they do? He did not know who she was: she was wearing> a mask. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? Director 's work like the Shining: Why Stanley Kubrick Changed Stephen King 's Story the Ninth.. 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